Wow…i have always said that for myself i would never subject myself to school or test-taking ever again….too traumatic, and as i now see it, traditional schooling was never helpful to me, just another way to force me into a mold i did not fit…i obliged for as long as possible, cutting off my own square corners even when it was not an absolute necessity, but in the end the most useful things in my life for my life i have taught myself. That said, i also entirely sympathize, if by going to school you aim for the degree that will get others to listen to you…but i doubt highly that “school” will teach you otherwise anything of interest or use, beyond re-inforcing the notion thar most schools are institutions of corporate and state abuse.
I love learning. But I can’t say that I love school. Despite a few great teachers, my overall experience of education was the opposite of positive. Still, I understand why some look to school for improvement in a society like ours. An education can have real economic value in this economic system. A college degree is now as necessary for most Americans as once was a high school degree. I’m fortunate to have been able to get a good government job with no need for a college degree.
I’m 56 and retiring to do it. I figure, I never wanted this workingman’s holiday life, I always wished I’d gone to school. The fantasy isn’t just to go – I think I should have lived there, so that’s the stupid idea I’m finally going to call my own bluff about. I may spend some retirement funds and need the degree and the job by the time I’m done though, if I make it.
agreed – like I was the right age, twenty or something I can’t even remember, I think I’m gonna go “change the system from the inside,” LOL. But yes, I’d like to one, learn to write better, I mean maybe an English course and I know I’ll need science writing, and two, get some letters beside my name for when I do write. Plus – I’m finding it impossible to glean the state of the art from out here at home on the internet, I can’t tell what’s new and what’s old, what’s real and what’s zombie science, you know? I want to learn who the people are to pay attention to. And, yes, I did quit school the last time some teacher started discipline threats and crap on me for attendance, I was 23, I think, just a single, night creative writing course. It won’t be easy.
Corporate and state abuse, e.g. School, being of course dark social matter…and not seen as abuse by most people. What do they say? “Every family, every insititution has skeletons in its closet…dont throw out the baby with the bathwater…” Oh, yeah? So because as you noted, everyone is abused, this very ubiquity makes it seem acceptable…except that it destroys lives and in fact i believe such “harmless abuse” has damaged every life on earth…
But i think these are also all points you have made yourself.
and it’s all part of game theory. I think now I may have made a terrible mistake denying my daughters some “normal” amount of abuse, but it’s all game theory because the village that stops beating its kids loses the wars in the next generation – I mean we think that, people think that, that’s the salient point, be it a priori true or not, we think it. Point is, it kind has be seen at the UN level, the Rights of the Child is the group that’s working for this, but it has to be everywhere at once, you know? The whole world has to liberalize – turns out it’s an all or nothing thing, I think. Yeah, again, I’m 56, set in my ways. They’ll have a time abusing me.
That is the problem in a nutshell, the need for universal global change all at once, or the thing is doomed to failure. I see my experiences in hospitals as part and parcel of all this, in fact the health care system is largely punitive at least in this country, and mental health care especially. But dont get me started in how mental health care is just abuse and punishment by another name….my pulse starts racing at the very thought even a scant encounter with that system again!
settle yer pulse, the lesson is entirely redundant, my Dear. Ha. So sorry about your mom. It was my turn to be with mine, I guess, but it sure felt the same reading yours.
I just have this idea of getting this truth “on the record, on the academic record” or something, and then spend the rest of my days trying to make at least a few scientific disciplines stop ignoring it. Write and sell a popular science book, is what I’m saying, of course!
Yes, learning to write in an engaging way that gets peoples attention is well worth doing. Very much so. Too many have nothing to say and say it badly or well but to our detriment. You have a great deal to say of value, and a well-written science book that “popularized” your thinking would be wonderful. Bravo for taking up the challenge to do this!
thanks . . . my real life experiment didn’t work out, you know. I had a meltdown, raised my voice a few times, and they punted me. They thought I made myself crazy smoking dope, and all they said when they’d still talk to me at all was “you’re crazy. We can’t talk to you.” When you’re standing right in front of them begging for conversation, I know you know. I figure I’m seeing life from the other side of something from now on, maybe.
Oh yeah, i know… and i did know this. But i think the real life experiment may have worked out anyway, if your daughters “bear fruit” by not being violent or punishing themselves with their own kids or others. I suppose you’d say that their refusing to speak with you is punishment, and it is, but the world is so full of “mental health messages” that say it is okay to call someone crazy and disregard them that despie your education they just fell for this….this exception to the rule i suppose they would call it. You cannot punish anyone, but if someone is crazy, abuse and punishment are not really the same thing any longer… or so thinking goes. I realize you tried to inculcate them with values contrary to this, but as you said, until the entire world changes….
Jeff – I thought I’d mention that my brothers both went back to college after having dropped out. My oldest brother returned in his early thirties and is now a county naturalist. My second oldest brother recently got a degree now in his mid-forties and he got a job with the city Parks and Recreation department. They both were glad they went back to school.
It’s never been that important to me as I’ve always preferred to educate myself in my own fashion. Besides, I have absolutely zero ambition for a professional career of any sort. I’m a simple guy with simple needs. In terms of learning, I’ve learned more than both of my brothers combined. It’s just my kind of learning isn’t easily gained from college.
That is fine. I don’t feel inferior for not having a college degree. Nor do I see any problem with those who do want a college degree. Higher education has its uses, as long as one is clear about what one is seeking.
Oh, I hope you know I don’t think any less about you because of that – or me either, for that matter. You and me, especially you – we’re smarter than all those fools. If you can’t do, teach, right? LOL I just want some sort of access. For one thing, along with your tuition, you get an ID to read research papers that might otherwise cost money. That’s not big, of course. Main thing is I need a new life. I really don’t want to go back to any part of my old life, like work and have to tell people what’s happened to me over the last few years.
Abuse with an Excuse 
Wow…i have always said that for myself i would never subject myself to school or test-taking ever again….too traumatic, and as i now see it, traditional schooling was never helpful to me, just another way to force me into a mold i did not fit…i obliged for as long as possible, cutting off my own square corners even when it was not an absolute necessity, but in the end the most useful things in my life for my life i have taught myself. That said, i also entirely sympathize, if by going to school you aim for the degree that will get others to listen to you…but i doubt highly that “school” will teach you otherwise anything of interest or use, beyond re-inforcing the notion thar most schools are institutions of corporate and state abuse.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I love learning. But I can’t say that I love school. Despite a few great teachers, my overall experience of education was the opposite of positive. Still, I understand why some look to school for improvement in a society like ours. An education can have real economic value in this economic system. A college degree is now as necessary for most Americans as once was a high school degree. I’m fortunate to have been able to get a good government job with no need for a college degree.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m 56 and retiring to do it. I figure, I never wanted this workingman’s holiday life, I always wished I’d gone to school. The fantasy isn’t just to go – I think I should have lived there, so that’s the stupid idea I’m finally going to call my own bluff about. I may spend some retirement funds and need the degree and the job by the time I’m done though, if I make it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
agreed – like I was the right age, twenty or something I can’t even remember, I think I’m gonna go “change the system from the inside,” LOL. But yes, I’d like to one, learn to write better, I mean maybe an English course and I know I’ll need science writing, and two, get some letters beside my name for when I do write. Plus – I’m finding it impossible to glean the state of the art from out here at home on the internet, I can’t tell what’s new and what’s old, what’s real and what’s zombie science, you know? I want to learn who the people are to pay attention to. And, yes, I did quit school the last time some teacher started discipline threats and crap on me for attendance, I was 23, I think, just a single, night creative writing course. It won’t be easy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Corporate and state abuse, e.g. School, being of course dark social matter…and not seen as abuse by most people. What do they say? “Every family, every insititution has skeletons in its closet…dont throw out the baby with the bathwater…” Oh, yeah? So because as you noted, everyone is abused, this very ubiquity makes it seem acceptable…except that it destroys lives and in fact i believe such “harmless abuse” has damaged every life on earth…
But i think these are also all points you have made yourself.
LikeLiked by 1 person
and it’s all part of game theory. I think now I may have made a terrible mistake denying my daughters some “normal” amount of abuse, but it’s all game theory because the village that stops beating its kids loses the wars in the next generation – I mean we think that, people think that, that’s the salient point, be it a priori true or not, we think it. Point is, it kind has be seen at the UN level, the Rights of the Child is the group that’s working for this, but it has to be everywhere at once, you know? The whole world has to liberalize – turns out it’s an all or nothing thing, I think. Yeah, again, I’m 56, set in my ways. They’ll have a time abusing me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That is the problem in a nutshell, the need for universal global change all at once, or the thing is doomed to failure. I see my experiences in hospitals as part and parcel of all this, in fact the health care system is largely punitive at least in this country, and mental health care especially. But dont get me started in how mental health care is just abuse and punishment by another name….my pulse starts racing at the very thought even a scant encounter with that system again!
LikeLiked by 1 person
settle yer pulse, the lesson is entirely redundant, my Dear. Ha. So sorry about your mom. It was my turn to be with mine, I guess, but it sure felt the same reading yours.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I just have this idea of getting this truth “on the record, on the academic record” or something, and then spend the rest of my days trying to make at least a few scientific disciplines stop ignoring it. Write and sell a popular science book, is what I’m saying, of course!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, learning to write in an engaging way that gets peoples attention is well worth doing. Very much so. Too many have nothing to say and say it badly or well but to our detriment. You have a great deal to say of value, and a well-written science book that “popularized” your thinking would be wonderful. Bravo for taking up the challenge to do this!
LikeLiked by 1 person
thanks . . . my real life experiment didn’t work out, you know. I had a meltdown, raised my voice a few times, and they punted me. They thought I made myself crazy smoking dope, and all they said when they’d still talk to me at all was “you’re crazy. We can’t talk to you.” When you’re standing right in front of them begging for conversation, I know you know. I figure I’m seeing life from the other side of something from now on, maybe.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh yeah, i know… and i did know this. But i think the real life experiment may have worked out anyway, if your daughters “bear fruit” by not being violent or punishing themselves with their own kids or others. I suppose you’d say that their refusing to speak with you is punishment, and it is, but the world is so full of “mental health messages” that say it is okay to call someone crazy and disregard them that despie your education they just fell for this….this exception to the rule i suppose they would call it. You cannot punish anyone, but if someone is crazy, abuse and punishment are not really the same thing any longer… or so thinking goes. I realize you tried to inculcate them with values contrary to this, but as you said, until the entire world changes….
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jeff – I thought I’d mention that my brothers both went back to college after having dropped out. My oldest brother returned in his early thirties and is now a county naturalist. My second oldest brother recently got a degree now in his mid-forties and he got a job with the city Parks and Recreation department. They both were glad they went back to school.
It’s never been that important to me as I’ve always preferred to educate myself in my own fashion. Besides, I have absolutely zero ambition for a professional career of any sort. I’m a simple guy with simple needs. In terms of learning, I’ve learned more than both of my brothers combined. It’s just my kind of learning isn’t easily gained from college.
That is fine. I don’t feel inferior for not having a college degree. Nor do I see any problem with those who do want a college degree. Higher education has its uses, as long as one is clear about what one is seeking.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh, I hope you know I don’t think any less about you because of that – or me either, for that matter. You and me, especially you – we’re smarter than all those fools. If you can’t do, teach, right? LOL I just want some sort of access. For one thing, along with your tuition, you get an ID to read research papers that might otherwise cost money. That’s not big, of course. Main thing is I need a new life. I really don’t want to go back to any part of my old life, like work and have to tell people what’s happened to me over the last few years.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Library and research paper access is oh so wonderful and i would swoon for it, myself!
LikeLiked by 1 person