I’m no misogynist, but . . . LOL. Wait for it, I got a better “but” than most.
– white women killed me.
I’m no misogynist, no woman hater. I wish I could tell you some other demographic destroyed me, I don’t want to be hurting the feminist cause. I hope I’m a rare friendly fire incident, but that’s who’s killed me. Don’t deny my truth.
Stupid, blind, white women, the same sort as more than half of which voted for Trump in America and bloody Harper here at home. Same bunch of “I feel safer six feet off the ground in my SUV” soccer moms that don’t want to think about Big Oil conspiracies or poorer people in their little economy cars who can’t see around them and feel less safe every time another one comes onto the road. They said I shouldn’t worry abut politics and Trump, and how related are “don’t worry about the monster” and voting for him? World-blind white women don’t seem to give a shit about anything beyond their own fence, do they?
Or for some of the things within their fences too, like I used to be.
The authoritarian aspects don’t end there, either.
I’m an odd little fellow, and I need to see everything differently, and I didn’t like the childrearing practised on my and my generation, so I determined, about the time of the arrival of my first daughter into the world, that we would be a no punishment household. That seemed to work out, seemed amazing, we seemed to have almost no issues of authority, no bad behaviour. About the time the younger one graduated high school, I got in trouble, a midlife crisis –
– and those white women reverted to punishment with me.
Ultimatums and consequences, shunning for disobedience . . . everything I had disavowed for them, every sort of coercion my daughters were never subjected to. These white women trumped up charges like they were afraid of me, like they had no choice but to punish me for their safety, so they could abandon me in the very middle of my crisis and mark me as an abuser or something, just to make sure no-one else could ever love me again. My white women. Just like the white crowd of both sexes, threat is all they see. I am non-violent, always have been, I write about it all day long, and I fought my ex to raise my girls with none of it, twenty some years – but this is not my record, not an achievement or a statement of who I am, no. To these terrified white idiots, all they see is I haven’t beaten them for twenty years, so they think they have twenty years’ worth coming or something. They assume I have twenty years of rage built up. Well, they also assume something in my childhood, so really, it’s fifty-some years of my rage they’re afraid of.
Just imagine if I had lived a hundred years of non-violence and preaching about it. Then I’d be twice as dangerous again, and deserve my shunning doubly, right?
That’s why they had to abandon, accuse, and shun me in the middle of a breakdown, that’s why I see no way forward now or ever and do not expect to survive for long and that’s just too fucking bad, so sad, because some white women have guilt and irrational fears. Haven’t I learned yet, and will I never, that my feelings, all the way to suicide and beyond will never matter if some white woman is having any feeling at all? Men rule this world, so fuck your feelings, Jeff.
Fifty-seven years so far of that.
Especially if I’d had abuse in my early years, right? Then I’m sure to be a time bomb and deserve whatever is necessary, as a precaution, of course. This is psychology to me now: if anything happened to you before, then this is you, making it happen again. You can’t tell me I’m neglecting you now, because your mother did it first. This is psychology in the hands of someone looking for an excuse, someone just looking for a way out of the conversation.
And, yes, that’s all I wanted, a conversation.
White women did this to me so they wouldn’t have to talk to me. Still today, these are my crimes, you SAID this you said THAT, why would you say THAT?
Because I thought you were my friends, my loved ones. I need to talk. It all went away when you all stopped talking to me, and when I complained, no-one is talking to me, you dropped me. Shut up or get out, old time authoritarian bullshit from my own women. I disavow loyalty, I think loyalty is the opposite of morality, so I don’t like to use the word “betrayal.” Maybe if I can make a distinction, that it’s not a betrayal of my person, but of my strivings, my goals, only of everything that matters to me.
White women, in my experience, are miserable authoritarians.
Jeff
July 11th., 2018
Abuse with an Excuse 
Screw this and all flicking iPads for losing my lengthy comment here!
I no longer Have the energy or patience to rewrite it and am just irrationally furious at iPads!
Nevertheless, it bears pointing out that generalizations tend to lead to division. I do this myself when I call ALL doctors moronic dickheads. But I would also be the first to admit this stance wins friends in the md community! I will let the rest be, as I really am too angry at my iPad to write further.
Love
Pam soon to change her name to Phoebe
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LOL! Yeah, I still have my old fashioned tower PC, desktop, full sized keyboard. I can get volatile attempting to type on my phone. No hurry, I know – Phoebela.
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Here we go with the ficking iPad again, and attempting to comment.
“White women are miserable authoritarians”
hmm, interesting thought. Maybe being a miserable authoritarian is better than being a happy and contented authoritarian? I mean, at least misery suggests the fit is bad.
Parenting tends to make all peeps authoritarian so I have always applauded you for your anti-all-punishment stance. I do not understand your loved ones rejection of you. Is it possible they were disappointed and felt abandoned by someone who had always been a figure oF strength to them? Losing a familiar person, in that sense, just as my younger sister did years ago when I ceased being her ideal older sister, can feel traumatic, and people often react badly. This says nothing about blame, as I for one am certain you broke down out of no intention on your part…in fact as I recall it was directly related to one of the anti-arthritis or psoriasis drugs, no?
Neverthekess, I feel my sisters own feeling of loss and trauma, now, some 50 years later. I don’t think she will ever get over losing her competent big sister to the frightened, ill person I suddenly became and for decades….
Once again, I reiterate that while I understand ENTIRELY the impulse to generalize from specific individuals to an entire designated group, since I do it all the time when angry or upset, I also know I feeds nothing healthy in me or anyone else. Generalizing, as I am positive you know, is a kind of bigotry…just as bad to talk about all MDs being Moronic Dickheads as to characterize all POC as lazy or all Americans as rich and white…or all rich white people as ____ (fill in the blank).
Okay, maybe that last one is true!
But maybe I am as always too focused on details to be comfortable with general statements, I know I have always accused others of not seeing the trees because of focusing on the forest. This leads to missing the individual too, and all groups are made up fundamentally of individuals, whether people or trees.
Anyhow,I will cease and desist. My name change is obviously not contributing to clear thinking or incisive ideas!!
Love ya,
Phoebe
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“Is it possible they were disappointed and felt abandoned by someone who had always been a figure of strength to them?”
They have indeed reported that experience, and I’m sure you know this one, they told me so to my face while I was begging for them to talk to me. It was like “Ghost,” attending one’s own funeral. While I was trying different angles, writing them letters, trying to find ways to reach them, all they said was “you’re crazy; we can’t talk to you” and “the weed’s making you crazy, stop the weed, or we can’t talk to you” . . . like a hundred times. The disconnection was on their end. I was in trouble, I was sad and having problems, manic then sad, but I was trying to talk to them, I never lost myself; I was lucid, it seems to have been my youngest that wasn’t. I know, mania is terrifying, but they were still talking about it and not seeing or hearing me six months into the depression.
yes, reaction to Otezla.
But, yes, they think I’m gone, they’re in mourning, it’s all over for them at that point, he’s gone – but we’re not gone are we? I still have to live with me, I still have my problems, except now what may have been a midlife crisis and a drug reaction that was never going to be permanent has become me alone, depressed, lost everything instead. They – she, the only one that talks is the youngest, it was her idea, I guess – she can’t seem to grasp that losing everything means anything, she seems to figure I was already gone before she/they dumped me. She/they cannot imagine that the worst thing that happened to me was that.
Well, I don’t want to be on here naming names, do I? I’m sorry, Pamela, but my life has had this generalization, it seems.
thanks,
love you too . . .
Jeff
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It is important to figure out whether you (or anyone else) would rather be right, or would prefer stronger and more genuine relationships. You cannot have both…
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goes both ways too, right? people lose each other, it’s not unidirectional.
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I think mania is mostly terrifying for people the first time they encounter it. But like all forms of madness, it ends up, if repeated, being a tad — I dunno— tiring, even boring for others who get sick of the problems re-occurring and just want peace and quiet.
That is my impression at any rate both from exasperated family members and the bored reaction of hospital staff when they themselves abused me and tortured me.
That Brings to mind the old “banality of evil” thing…for me at any rate, which is paradoxical at best.
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People, it’s not just us white women. If I had to guess I’d say that we all live in the same ecosystem, the same pond, so punishment is like relgion and guns – the first port of call for certain eventualities.
Everyone can be humbled, humiliated and scapegoated – even white people – men too apparently, so I hear.
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I can’t seem to ever spell religion right, it’s a sign isn’t it?
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hi Jeff,
I have been reading and rereading your response to my first comment and the ones that followed. I hope you do not mind if I ask a few questions, just to get what’s going on for you better. If what I write sounds — I dunno — somewhat stilted, as it may, it is only because I am using NVC strategy to ask these questions. I am unskilled at NVC so it takes a lot of thinking and pondering to get to guesses about what the fundamental feelings and unmet needs remain in the situation.
So here are my questions: Did you feel sad and disappointed that your family did not acknowledge you, but only saw pathology, however they defined it. I wonder whether your need to be included (and not punished with isolation) even when you were manic or depressed was not met and whether you felt sad and may be even angry about this? (this is not an accusation. I do not need you to tell me I am right. I just ask these questions to clarify things).
If I were in their shoes, and forgive me if this does not work for you, I might feel angry and sad and disappointed also, because (in the case of your youngest) maybe their need for safety was not met — as if they were saying/thinking “I miss my Daddy,! he was always there for me and now he is involved in being manic and depressed and I feel sad that he cannot stay as he was. I feel afraid of change and of these changes I see in him and I am afraid that he will not be there emotionally to support me.” Could this youngest also perhaps feel disappointed because their need for family stability was not met?
Please know that I am not laying blame, not at all, only trying to understand, in NVC terms, the dynamics of what transpired. I hear pain in your writing about this events, and also a deep desire to be understood and to feel accepted, esp by your loved ones.
I do apologize if there is a mechanical sound to this…A good friend, one I thought was “forever”, said he found NVC “superficial” and wanted me not to use it. We broke up largely because — well it is a long story, not on this topic really, so I will save it…But for me, while the VNC procedure is “simple” ( (applying NVC to any given conflict) it is far from being merely superficial. In fact, it may be simple, but it is not easy at all! Sometimes the simplest tasks are not only the hardest but lead to the most profound results.
Okay, I hope you will be able to answer my questions, but never fear, I do not require this, esp if such questions might not have sat well with you…
love,
Phoebe * see below if you believe I am PAmela!
(If i have not told you yet, I am changing my name, as Pamela is still hated, to one I have always used for myself secretly. So I guess you could say, I am Phoebe “the artist formerly known as Pamela”!
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it was like a few weeks ago I got in trouble for saying “Pam,” and I only just got
“Pamela” right. OK, you’re being real, Phoebe? OK.
I don’t mind the format. It’s just a simple “yes” for everything, but I’ll have a go.
“Did you feel sad and disappointed that your family did not acknowledge you, but only saw pathology, however they defined it.”
yes
“I wonder whether your need to be included (and not punished with isolation) even when you were manic or depressed was not met and whether you felt sad and may be even angry about this? (this is not an accusation. I do not need you to tell me I am right. I just ask these questions to clarify things).”
yes, sad. I don’t think angry. It’s unbelievable frustrating, but I don’t have anyone to be mad at, it was the three of them, it’s impossible to pick them apart, well, it’s mostly the youngest, and I’m not angry at her for losing her mind, or for being put in an impossible position between me and my misandrist, would not/could not talk to me wife – who frankly, the wife, is just kinda too dumb blind and scared to be angry at, might as well be mad at the cat. I’m sure you see it – I’m angry at all but a very few women in my life. I had a mother and I have one of two sisters who have ever considered my feelings even some of the time. The rest has all been battle of the sexes BS, if a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman to hear, is he still wrong?
“If I were in their shoes, and forgive me if this does not work for you, I might feel angry and sad and disappointed also, because (in the case of your youngest) maybe their need for safety was not met — as if they were saying/thinking “I miss my Daddy,! he was always there for me and now he is involved in being manic and depressed and I feel sad that he cannot stay as he was.”
again, yes, she’s said all of that, and what am I supposed to do about it when she says “you’re gone” to my face and won’t be turned around about it? She does seem to want something from me, but she’s convinced I’m gone and changed and crazy, and apparently dangerous, and she thinks anything I say is an attack. At one point I pretty much screamed “don’t go away, I’m afraid you’re going to kill yourself or something,” and this is in her list of my crimes, she tells me I was laughing and enjoying it, and because I am/was crazy, my story about my own feelings and speech she won’t believe.
“I feel afraid of change and of these changes I see in him and I am afraid that he will not be there emotionally to support me.” Could this youngest also perhaps feel disappointed because their need for family stability was not met?”
again yes, and I think I’ve said all this already – in NVC a very repetitive process? 😉
yes, all of that, but it’s my fault for going crazy, and what she needs she won’t have from me, because I’m crazy now. It’s condition to talk to her that I don’t argue with ‘her truth’ – like that I was laughing and loving the idea of her suicide, and I think I’ve said before, that isn’t true, and it would be hard enough to say if it were true – but is that a lie I should tell my own kid? OK, Honey, you win, I wanted you dead?
It’s a rock and a hard place, lie and tell her her ‘truth’ is OK, and that her dad felt like THAT – or stick to my truth, tell her I love her and have her hate me as a crazy liar? Can NVC get me over that one?
thanks, Phoebe,
Jeff
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“Like I said”, I think, I am no expert at NVC, and it does sound repetitive at first. Still, I have a lot of faith that it will prove healing for me, and indeed it already is. That said, Thank you for your patience and not being irritated by some perhaps obvious things I reiterated…I have not read all your posts and it is hard for me to always “get” what you are saying, despite and maybe because of the spontaneous, speaking-like writing style native to you.
As for the utility of NVC, I think if one can stick ONLY with what is observed and then guess at the others’ feelings and unmet needs, not making assumptions or taking things personally, it can work miracles. But it is not easy to do any of that when we have been socialized to concern ourselves with much the opposite. What we think and others think, and not in fact what we FEEL at all. But I believe that our behaviors and what we experience come out of what we feel, before we put anything into words or analysis, and pre-consciously most of the time too.
If I learn nothing more, I want to be able to be present for the NOW and conscious of what I say and feel and do…That I believe will be a kind of salvation for me, the only one worthy of the name…
Love,
phoebe sparrow wagner
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I really think she can’t or won’t try, she’s protecting my ex and the other daughter, or at least the battle of the sexes conflict is still in place. I have very little interest in my ex at this point – I’m not really looking for reconciliation to be honest, I’m angry enough for that. I’ve found out how safe I was with that woman, with all of them, there is no going home. It sucks to be alone, but at least you’re alone, you know? I can’t imagine ever going back to being the family man-dog for my ex, making any little decision at all based on anything about her again – and that isn’t going to make things easy for any reconciliation with my daughters, they will protect the ex forever, she has raised them for that purpose – while I was being non-violent and non-intrusive, she was apparently getting them ready to fear and hate me at a moments’ notice.
Sorry, a rant – the point is, the conflict is still in place, I am never going to be a good boy because any women think I should be ever, so for my youngest to have a relationship with me like that will be hard, it’s probably what broke her down in the first place, I have to be liberated from that timeless crap. I don’t hate women, I don’t ignore them when they talk, I never did, and after twenty years of being treated that way – 57 years, I mean – of knowing she couldn’t find me worth talking to because I’m a man – she had her chance, I begged her to, the entire marriage. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like women less than men. I hate those bastards, men. They made women this way. Most people play the game, if I were a man, if I put the make on women, if I got my dinner made and my laundry done, maybe then, I’d sit with them men, and hate the women back – that would be fair, we hate each other, we love each other, we fight, we love – but I didn’t hate, I didn’t fight. I still don’t want to, and I no longer want to be subject to it.
If my youngest wants anything from me, she can have it, and the other one too, if they ever come around.
I just cannot tolerate my status as a man who lost his girls, and they say it’s because I became “mean,” like abusive. I ain’t the type who can go meet people and start a new life with that hanging over me. I’ve been talking shit about abusers all my life, and in writing for the last ten years, and I AM NOT THAT, I AM THE OPPOSITE OF THAT. I know it’s not intentional or anything, but this is a perfect character assassination. Any dreams I had of being published or appreciated are gone, poof.
Sorry to whine, I gotta to somebody.
Jeff
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I’ve been litigating this with myself for two years now, my good days I wake up not doing it, but I’m not having many good days. Yeah, I try not to do that, but she’s blatant about it: how she has decided I felt during a bunch of incidents, those are HER feelings and what I was feeling or thinking somehow don’t enter into it. I tried to say enough for her to see her way out of that, but she doesn’t seem motivated to try.
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Hi Jeff, if someone is stuck on their feelings about you and making assumptions about you that are not true, the best I can suggest, again using NVC, is to ask them about (your guess) their feelings and the unmet needs that these assumptions pre-suppose. It is not at all easy to do this, when, I get this, you also need empathy and understanding yourself . From my understanding of NVC, you might need to tell the person you simply need a break to think about things, and will get back to them when calmer and clearer…Your own need for empathy and understanding is strong and should not be overridden just because of another person’s assumptions, but I have learned that it is impossible to explain oneself out of another persons assumptions. painful as it always is to feel misunderstood and (for those untrue reasons) left out and rejected. IN fact, I would say that your need for empathy and understanding is paramount for you, and it would take superhuman strength and objectivity to try to understand the other person while still feeling so raw and misunderstood.
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I wrote that long one above before I saw this one . . . yeah, I’m sure you’re right about that. I’ll look at that in the morning and try to see if I can apply it somehow . . .
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